As part of Skip the Queue’s mini-series celebrating 90 years of BALPPA, Andy Povey is joined by Eddie Kemsley, CEO of Dreamland Margate, to discuss how one of the UK’s oldest amusement parks has reinvented itself. Eddie shares how Dreamland has expanded beyond rides into live music, events, weddings and film productions, and how diversification has shaped the business and its role in Margate’s revival. The episode also explores heritage, the attractions community and what the future could hold for this unique seafront venue.
In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Eddie Kemsley, CEO of Dreamland in Margate – one of the oldest surviving amusement park in the country, and one of the most reinvented.
Dreamland dates back to 1880. It closed in 2003, and reopened in 2015 as a vintage amusement park. Since then it has become something harder to categorise: a park, a six-and-a-half-thousand capacity outdoor music venue, an indoor events space, a wedding venue and a filming location, all on sixteen acres of seafront.
At the end of 2023, LN-Gaiety - the Live Nation and Gaiety Investments joint venture - took a controlling stake in the business.
Eddie now leads the boutique festival side of the business, she has served on BALPPA's Management Committee and still sits on the marketing sub-committee, helping shape the association's marketing seminars.
They talk about diversification as strategy rather than accident, what the events and filming side really contributes, and what the industry network gives an operator who sits beyond the usual categories.
This episode is part of Skip the Queue’s mini-series celebrating 90 years of BALPPA, looking at the people and businesses shaping the UK attractions industry.
Show references:
Eddie Kemsley - CEO Dreamland, Margate
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Credits:
Written by Laura Baxter (YourCMO)
Edited by Steve Folland
Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster)
Andy Povey: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast by and for people working with visitor attractions Brought to you by Merac. I'm your host Andy Povey. BALPPA is celebrating its 90th anniversary this year.
So to mark this we're launching a series of special podcasts talking with some of the founders and owners of UK Attractions. We're going to hear from some of the stores of the industry, from third generation family owners and operators about them, their roles and what BALPPA means to them.
This time I'm joined by Eddie Kemsley of Dreamland and Live Nation fame. Eddie's been around attractions for her entire career and now sits in the middle of the Venn diagram between attractions and music events. She's been part of the team that's worked with Dreamland to really help drive the regeneration of Margate and has some fascinating insights.
Andy Povey: Today's ride operator quote the louder you scream the faster you go. Hold time. So Dreamland is 145 years old now?
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, I mean not necessarily as an amusement park that's just over 100, 105 ish years but. But as of entertainment centre. Yeah it's been around for nearly 150 years in different guises. I mean you know back in the really early days you know had animals and bears and lions and tigers and elephants that used to be taken out of Dreamland down to the sea in Margate to have their baths and stuff like that. So it's iterate today is but over 100 years and as a sort of amusement park.
Andy Povey: Where did you start your engagement? Dreamland.
Eddie Kemsley: I started it back in sort of 2013 when the site was compulsory purchased by the local authority and there was a plot of public money to reopen the site as an amusement park. So I started back then and then reopened it in 2015. I then left for a couple of years and went up to do Kidzania in London and then came back. I think it just got under my skin, got the bug for it. So I came back and I've been back now about seven years running True nun. I think it is seven or eight.
Andy Povey: Years that port of the coast.
Eddie Kemsley: There's something about it. It's a very special place. A lot of history, lot of nostalgia, a lot of. And I think I felt like it just we hadn't quite finished the job so I wanted to sort of go back and take it to the next stage.
Andy Povey: So what's Dreamland today? Tell our guests that haven't made it.
Eddie Kemsley: Margate, I mean, it's really a sort of leisure destination of two halves, I think is probably the fairest way to put it. So by day it's a. It's a, you know, vintage amusement park, you know, beautiful sort of Instagrammable space that's free to enter. So it's sort of like public realm almost in Margate where you can come in, spend half an hour, just have an ice cream, or you can spend a whole day and go on rides and do the Ronald Disco and the arcades and things like that. And then by night in the summer periods, we have seven and a half thousand capacity outdoor event arena and we do a lot of live music. So up to 40 nights a year of big bands coming to play on our stage in the outdoor arena.
Andy Povey: Wow. Bringing those bands down to Margate has got to present a load of challenges on top of everything else that you would have for running in attraction.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, I mean, finding the balance between the sort of Dave is to attraction and then flipping that over into the sort of nighttime mode that it needs to be in is a challenge. Challenge sort of getting those audiences in and out and making sure everyone's well served and got what they need. But you know, it just means we have to be really organised and really efficient and make sure that sort of swap over from daytime to nighttime operation is smooth, or as smooth as it possibly can be.
Andy Povey: Well, if you're doing that 40 nights a year, you've got to be quite practiced at it.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, we are now. We've got better and better at it. We've been doing it for about four or five years at that kind of level now and. And yeah, it's a pretty well oiled machine now in terms of that flip over. You know, there's the odd challenge when an artist arrives late or whatever and they want to do a sound check and we've still got families in enjoying rides and we have to kind of try and balance that off a bit and things like that. But yeah, generally it pretty much works now.
Andy Povey: And I mean the live music has got to add another buzz, hasn't it?
Eddie Kemsley: It does. And the area down there isn't. You know, there's not a lot of big outdoor music spaces and you know, it's made a massive difference to Dreamland. It really has. And audiences that we pull in and then what we're seeing is those people that maybe book a ticket to come to a live show then go, oh wow. Margate's great. Dreamland's great. We're going to come back, we'll bring the kids next time, you know, we'll come and enjoy the amusement park side of it and everything that Margate's got to offer. So, you know, it's worked really well for Dreamland and, you know, the wider town.
Andy Povey: The last time I was at Dreamland was. It was about a marketing seminar. Yeah. Dragged me down and that was exactly my experience. I loved Bargain.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, it's a great town. And you know, the regeneration that's gone on over there in the last sort of 10, 15 years with the, you know, sort of. The catalyst was Turner Contemporary, the art gallery opening and then.
Andy Povey: Yeah.
Eddie Kemsley: And a few years after that. And I think those two kind of bookends to the town, that they're both kind of cultural assets but in very different ways. You know, really bring a very diverse audience into Margate. And you know, the train line, which is direct from London, is. Is really great as well as it allows people to come for those kind of days out, you know, day out, which, you know, back in the sort of 50s, 60s, 70s was a really, you know, well used thing.
Eddie Kemsley: But in the 70s and 80s when the cheap airfares came in and everyone started going on holiday to Spain or wherever, in Malaga instead of Margate or whatever it was, you know, a lot of those towns like Margate, you know, took a real dip and really suffered off the back of people being able to get abroad for much cheaper. So sort of the reinvention of Margate over has really changed the town and brought in a lot of wonderful F and B, great artists coming down, galleries opening, studio spaces and it's really brought it back to life.
Andy Povey: I mean, it's a really positive story. I absolutely love being part of an industry that can help that regeneration of an area. It's got to be a really positive thing for you to sit and consider if you ever get the chance to.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, usually too busy to stop for too long and think about it. But I think it is great to be part of a story and, you know, we're one piece of the puzzle in Margate, but, you know, I think being able to be part of that regeneration and, you know, it's all the things that come off the back of somewhere like Dreamland. You know, it's a job creation, it's the growth of the nighttime economy. It's seeing more bars and little clubs and restaurants. Open and knowing that us bringing in, you know, hundreds of thousands of visitors a year, really helping support the local economy is, is great. All the, all the things, the sort of ripple effect like, of that is, has been fantastic to watch over the last sort of 10, 12 years.
Andy Povey: Obviously, Margaret's changed a lot. How much of you, that revival do you think you can attribute to Dreamland? Or is it Dreamland benefiting from that wave that's happening anyway? How do you actually start that?
Eddie Kemsley: They're really interweaved, I think, you know, Margate has and always has had great bones. It was built as a town for leisure. It was built for Londoners in the 18th century who wanted to get out to the seaside, you know, when sea bathing and sea air was big thing and, you know, people being healthy and being down by the sea as opposed to being in the smog in London and whatever. So the town itself, the infrastructure of the town is. Everything's walkable. You get off the train in Margate and you can see the sea and you're right in the town centre, which is actually really rare for seaside towns. Most of those stations are much further back. And you've then got to work out how you get from the station in, you know, to the seafront.
Eddie Kemsley: The architecture is beautiful in Margate, so, you know, it's always had really good bones and that's why it was so popular, you know, 50, 60, 70 years ago as a seaside tourist destination. So building on that, you know, the opening of Turner Contemporary Gallery, the, the flow of artists and creatives that then start to move down to Margate and create and work and exhibit down there and then, you know, Dreamland reopening, which is a, like I say, that kind of different cultural asset, but also, you know, bringing different audiences. I think all of those things put in a big melting pot have resulted in, you know, the regeneration of Margate and attracting lots of entrepreneurs and business people to come down and open bars, restaurants, clubs, studio spaces, retail, whatever it might be. And because it's a compact town, it's impactful.
Eddie Kemsley: You know, that investment coming down and investing in Margate is impactful and it works and people can see it as soon as they get off the train.
Andy Povey: Slightly different thread then. Filming and photography is a huge revenue line for you, isn't it? How did that start?
Eddie Kemsley: Oh, that's a really good question. I'm not 100% sure how it started. I suppose we just, we started getting, you know, inquiries. And I think the Dreamland estate's really varied. So we've got, you know, a roller disco, we' traditional ballroom, we've got live music, indoor venues, we've got beautiful vintage arcade spaces. We've got acres and acres outside with lots of different pockets to it. We've got an old cinema, you know, we've got lots of different types of assets and I think on top of that we've got facilities for filming. So we've got places they can park, we can provide them with catering, we can provide them with spaces for all their outside broadcast vans and all that kind of thing, which is always really important when scouts are looking for places to go and film.
Eddie Kemsley: And then I suppose the big shift for us was when Sam Mendes came down and we filmed with him for about nine months in Covid or just were coming out. Covid, a film that was set at Dreamland in various different locations and wider filming in Margate. And that was, you know, Colin Firth, Olivia Colman, et cetera. So we had a real a list, artists and celebrities filming with us and that was just amazing. And I think off the back of that we've got a lot more inquiries. But we film everything from. We do a lot of music videos, we do a lot of adverts. You know, we've just done Google's new phone.
Eddie Kemsley: You know, there's all sorts of stuff that we do because I think the site's diverse and it's got lots of different, you know, we've had someone come and filming on sort of 1960s breeze block concrete car park the other day because that was the kind of set they're looking for. But you've got to get out there and get on those location websites and you've got to be putting yourself out there and going to the trade shows for. For that sort career of things and making sure people know how diverse your kind of space is if you're interested in getting filming and photography in.
Andy Povey: And so is something you recommend or is it absolute pain?
Eddie Kemsley: It's hard work, you know, are quite demanding, but it's a really good way of sort of sweating your asset, if you know what I mean. And often they're quite happy to film, you know, on days and times that may not affect your sort of core trading, if you know what I mean. So it's a great sort of extra revenue stream and it's worked brilliantly for us at Dreamland.
Andy Povey: And are you able to track or attribute increases visits to certain films or.
Eddie Kemsley: It's really difficult to actually put your finger on it. But certainly like when we did the Sam Mendes film, after that we've done the set tours, we've had a lot of people coming down and taking photos in certain areas that are open to the public. So they can kind of see that, oh, this is where this bit was filmed and go on certain rides and you know, they know that those rides were in the film and that kind of thing. So we've definitely had an increase in visitors off the back of some of the filming and stuff that we've done. But actually putting numbers to it would be pretty impossible I think.
Andy Povey: Dreamland is a very diverse site. You've got a listed ballroom, vintage rides and you running some of the most up to date music events in the country. How do you manage that mix?
Eddie Kemsley: I mean it is tricky. We're really busy in the summer months obviously from like sort of May through September. We've got live music, we've got the Music Park open, etc. And then really it's trying to work out how we can bring revenue in through, you know, more revenue in through the winter. We've got lots of indoor space as well. We've got three indoor venues of 1500 cap, a thousand cap and a 500 cap and the roller disco and the arcades and stuff. But I think it's about trying to sort of balance the diary out as much as possible so that you're, you know, every day is, it's something's going on and something's in use and we're trying to work out how we can bring more trade into the sort of slightly low season or quieter days.
Eddie Kemsley: So it is about constantly looking ahead, a long way ahead and trying to balance that diary out.
Andy Povey: Yeah. And you've got the assets to do it as well. So yeah, I'm sure a lot of our listeners are going to end the diversity of facilities you have.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, I mean that's challenging as well. We're a fully grade 2 listed site across the board. So you know, there are challenges that come with habit.
Andy Povey: You can't do that.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, yeah. You know, such a diverse portfolio of spaces. But you know, the flip side of that is the opportunity obviously and there's lots of different ways to use those spaces and you know, we just start to really increase our corporate side of things as well. Conferencing and corporates becoming a big piece for us now around getting people who want those away days, they want the fun of the rides and stuff. But they want the conferencing, they want the space, they want breakout, they want spaces to do different seminars and exhibition space and stuff like that. We've always done it to a small degree, but something we're kind of really focusing on more now.
Andy Povey: This is part of the BALPPA series celebrating 90 years of BALPPA's existence. And you've been part of the management committee, haven't you?
Eddie Kemsley: I have. I think I did about 10 years on the management committee. I stood down last year, but I still sit on the marketing subgroup. So I help organise the annual marketing conference with the rest of that team. And you know, BALPPA has been a huge part of my journey, you know, at Dreamland and Pre as well in other attractions that I've worked in. You know, I think the biggest thing for me with BALPPA is the networking and people that you've got in your phone that you can ring up if you've got a challenge or a problem or you want to pick someone's brain or you want to, you know, compare something with someone or whatever. Just having that sort of, that really amazing group of people who are sort of leading the attractions industry in the UK is just brilliant.
Andy Povey: So you mentioned the marketing seminar is one of my favourite events that I put on every year. What is it that you try and bring into the room? How are you curating that program for the marketing seminars?
Eddie Kemsley: There's a team of five of us that sort of work on that. But I think it's about, you know, making sure the content is as varied and as interesting as possible, that we're ahead of the curve. I think the bit that people love the most is hearing the real life true stories and the case studies from people. So, you know, we could just put on lots of sort of theoretical kind of lectures or talks about, you know, what's happening with AI, what you should be doing, you know, et cetera. But I think it's those kind of real life examples of people, you know, saying we did a rebrand this work, this didn't, this was great. This we wouldn't do it again, this we would do again, you know, those kind of things.
Eddie Kemsley: And we get some brilliant speakers, you know, marketing bunch, pretty, usually pretty outgoing and chatty. So they usually pre up for it, you know, and we get a real variety from, you know, very small, very local attractions right the way through to the big groups and that kind of thing that will come and talk and share ideas and thoughts. And, you know, I think everyone leaves, you know, that marketing day, you know, feeling like they've learned something and they've got something to take away. And that's key, you know, particularly for the sort of managers who need to make sure they get approval to come to those sorts of things and that their bosses can see value in it.
Eddie Kemsley: I think, you know, I've never walked away from one of those, not going, I've learned something, I've met someone, I've got a new idea, I'm going to take it back and implement it in my business or talk to the team about implementing it. And so I think it's the takeaway that you've got to make sure people leave with things of real value.
Andy Povey: Listeners. If you haven't made it to the BALPPA marketing conference and you have some responsibility for marketing, then make sure you get there.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, definitely make sure you get to the bar the night before as well.
Andy Povey: Somewhat unwritten part of the agreement, isn't it? I keep telling everyone that my fat bear belly is an industrial accident.
Eddie Kemsley: All on expenses. Andy?
Andy Povey: No comment. We talked briefly, Eddie, about BALPPA and the network and the value of that network. What else do you get out of BALPPA? I mean, you've been an active member for 10 years.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, I mean, lots of things. Obviously, you know, website's a great source of information. They run a lot of seminars so different team members can go to different things, whether it's health and safety or HR or legal updates, political updates, et cetera. So there's lots of different strands to what BALPPA offer and that's really good development and learning for the teams across a wide, you know, section of things. You know, I think that the ability to get together physically with different audiences, you know, whether it's the summer conference or, you know, their presence at IAAPA or, you know, the different seminars and bits that they run throughout the year. Physically began to get together with colleagues and chew stuff over and talk things through and meet new people, et cetera is obviously, you know, really valuable as well.
Eddie Kemsley: And then they do some great updates on what's going on at government and how we're trying to influence policy and work with the different organisations that are out there that sort of sometimes overlap a bit with us, but as a combined forces, we're stronger. And so that's really valuable to be able to get insight on what's going on and, you know, BALPPA leading the sort of charge on trying to influence those sort of you know, the government decision making groups. So loads of different benefits. And I think, you know, for me the program of events is varied, it's wide, they're always going to different locations. So as you know, even like the last marketing one we did, which was at Paulson's and we got to see Polton's new area that just opened, you get to see another park.
Eddie Kemsley: And certainly from a marketing perspective or an opera, any perspective really, but from a marketing perspective that's really useful. So you get a kind of fam trip as well as all the content and meeting people at the same time. So it's like a three hit thing.
Andy Povey: Stepping away from BALPPA for a moment, you've got a very diverse role at Live Nation. How do you juggle looking after boutique events and festivals versus running an attraction?
Eddie Kemsley: Well, summer's really busy. It's like a bit crazy and I'm all over the country, you know, with different things. So it is a bit of a balancing act to kind of fit everything in. But I think, you know, you just have to love it, you have to want to do it, you have to be enthusiastic about it. It's certainly not, you know, it's not the kind of job for the sort of Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, that's for sure. So, you know, it's a lot of planning, particularly in the summer of, you know, logistics and geography and that kind of thing. But, you know, if, if you enjoy it, then, you know, I've always said I feel so lucky to have had a career that I've loved.
Eddie Kemsley: But, you know, it's a very rare thing for me to have that sort of Sunday night blues that a lot of people get where you kind of think, oh God, it's Monday tomorrow. You know, I'm always looking forward to the week ahead and what's coming and it's so varied. You never get bored.
Andy Povey: So you've just completed the project in Weston-super-Mare. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Eddie Kemsley: We've just completed a step in the project in Weston-super-Mare.
Andy Povey: A step in the project.
Eddie Kemsley: We're working with North Somerset Council who have got an amazing space called the Tropicana on the beach in Weston-super-Mare. It was home to Dismal and that Banksy did. And then it had the sea monster in it. We've just, yeah, just signed a lease with North Somerset Council. So we're working with them over the next couple of years to Redevelop the site into an outdoor arena, outdoor music and event space that will hold up to sort of 10,000 people and have a really wide diverse range of events going on there. Obviously sort of live music, but also, you know, things like Halloween events, Christmas events, exhibitions, you know, all sorts of things, everything in between. So it's going to be very exciting.
Eddie Kemsley: And we've got, yeah, a couple of years to work on building that out and getting that ready to open to the public.
Andy Povey: Fantastic. And I mean Weston-super-Mare is one of those really forward looking local authorities, isn't it? Yeah, I've worked with them in the past.
Eddie Kemsley: They're ambitious and they're driven and they, you know, they, they get the benefits of a kind of venue like that to a town like Western and I think they've seen it work in other, you know, coastal locations around the UK and so yeah, it's been, it's great. We're really enjoying working on that project.
Andy Povey: If you're running a seaside town then why would you not want to replicate what Margate have done?
Eddie Kemsley: Well, every seaside town is definitely different and you know, Western is beautiful and yeah, it's got beautiful sound, it's got great pier, you know, there's lots of assets there to pull together and obviously, you know, close to Bristol and those kind of locations. So I think it's got, it's a really unique place and a lot of people there, the community who are really behind the growth and development of the town. And so that's been really good to see lots of arts and culture already going on there. So, you know, hopefully we can build on that and help grow it for Western and the wider area.
Andy Povey: Looking at the wider attractions industry. I mean, if you're, if we've got any operators sitting, listening to this right now who are sitting on an underused site or areas of the site that they could use differently. Where would you point them to start in terms of diversifying what they're doing?
Eddie Kemsley: I mean, I suppose there's the sort of, you know, looking at when spaces are used and when they're not. And then what needs might be out there in this in the times that the spaces aren't in use? So you know, if you're talking about kind of amusement park or an outdoor venue, basically like what could it be used for? What needs are there out there that might be, might you might be able to serve? And then I think it's really about looking at kind of where you are, how people get to you what demand there is in the area. I mean, it's certainly the filming of photography is something I feel really passionately about as a really good opportunity and there are lots of people doing bits of it.
Eddie Kemsley: But I think being proactive in that area and getting to those trade shows I was talking about earlier is really important and putting your site out there, making sure it's accessible and people know about it and then I think, you know. Yeah, looking at ways that you can use your space when it's not driving your core revenue streams.
Andy Povey: Now, crystal ball moment. What's coming next for Dreamland that you can share? What's it look like in the next five years?
Eddie Kemsley: I mean, I think, you know, like a lot of people we've, you know, post Covid, it's been about kind of like settling back down into, to sort of your trading and kind of getting those core business dreams on the right path and developing those. We've got a lot of work still to be done at Dreamlander because it's such a big space with so many different moving parts. You know, it's a bit like redecorating your house, isn't it? Once you've done the kitchen, you need to do the bathroom. Once you've done that, you do a bedroom, then you're back to the kitchen again because it's, you know.
Andy Povey: Yes.
Eddie Kemsley: So, you know, it's a constant job of kind of revisiting the different parts of it and looking at things. So we've got lots of things that we're thinking about doing. Nothing that I can share with you that we've got like absolutely nailed down that we're going to be doing in the next 24 to sort of 48 months. But it's a constant thing and really looking at some of those key trading periods outside of the summer. So looking at the Halloween and the Christmas side of things is probably a big ish focus for the next couple of years for us.
Andy Povey: Yeah, I think that's in common for everyone. This, the summer has been such a challenge. Yeah, we've gone from complaining about the rain to complaining about the sunshine.
Eddie Kemsley: You need that sweet spot in the middle when it's, you know, that perfect sort of 20, 21 to 24 degrees is, you know, with a little bit of cloud cover is just. That's it.
Andy Povey: One thing we try and do on every episode of Skip the Queue is asking ask you guys the People that are running some of the UK's leading attractions for tips and pointers for other people who are running an attraction right now. So we're just coming to the end of the summer season. What would be your advice to anybody operating a park today?
Eddie Kemsley: Have a holiday? I mean, I mean, I'm not even joking really, because I think stopping to really think about what's worked and what hasn't in, you know, doing that debrief, we do a debrief with like the full team and everybody presents and everybody comes in and talks about what's worked, but also what hasn't worked or what we need to do differently. And I think stopping is the hardest bit because it's so easy just to keep going and keep going. And now we could build this and that, you know. So I think, yeah, just really taking time. We try and do it. It's never, it's not always very easy, is it? But trying to take time where you get, you know, proper thinking time is, is always tough in such a busy business.
Eddie Kemsley: But yeah, I think that's probably the thing I try and tell myself to.
Andy Povey: Do anyway, so listen to step away from the desk, get a great podcast, go for a walk and consider what you've been the season so far.
Eddie Kemsley: Amazing.
Andy Povey: Eddie, I've really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you.
Eddie Kemsley: Yeah, me too.
Andy Povey: Right, good luck with everything you're doing. I'm really. I will stop at Weston-super-Mare. Come in and say hello next time on your driving paths.
Listeners, if you've enjoyed what you've heard, please take a moment to like or even recommend us on whatever platform you use for your podcasts. If you want to get more of the special Falcon 90th series or you want to hear more from Skip the Queue, head over to skipthequeue.fm.
Today's episode was co produced by Sami and Emily from Plaster with Laura from YourCMO. Socials and schedules were all managed by Wenalyn back at Merac HQ. Editing and making us all sound super professional was by Steve Folland. I've been your host, Andy Povey. Thank you and goodbye.